Save Tulane Engineering

wckirby · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 355 Location: New Orleans

I just called the University of New Orleans. I talked with a lady there (who was also was astounded Tulane decided to axe the engineering school. UNO, which is a much larger university along the lakefront took $103 million dollars in damages. After telling her who I was and who I was working for, she wished me luck.

How could Tulane, a smaller university which took FAR less damage than UNO have twice the damage? Reason dictates this can't be the case. Tulane can't just throw around big numbers and expect people to take their word for it, especially when this action puts New Orleans in jepardy.

Go to Google Maps and check out their satellite photos of UNO's campus. Look at where they are in the city and how much damage Katrina did.

If Tulane's numbers are accurate, open you books and prove it. Prove you took $200 million in damages. Prove the only way to make up those losses is to axe the engineering school and only the engineering school.

It doesn't pass the smell test.

TwoEven · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 26

You just sparked some curisosity in me, and I found this.

http://insidehighered.com/news/2005/11/14/gulf

jlefante · Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 7 Location: New Orleans, LA

Well, on that chart it says Tulane only had $125 million of "physical" damage compared to Loyola's $4 million. And yes, I do think that is possible. Not necessarily definite, but very possible. The flooding was VERY bad around Claiborne. The number I find odd is that it says that Tulane lost $60 million in tuition. Aren't they making all of us pay supposedly?
_________________
Joseph Lefante
Civil Engineering '08

ET097 · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 41

kids who dont have to pay tuition this semester:
1. took the semester off
2. are only part time right now so only owe the school at the part time rate
3. totally withdrew from the school

i know a bunch of people who are only taking classes part time that before the hurricane were planning on being full time.
_________________
-Elizabeth Threlkeld
Computer Engineering '06

noladave · Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 2 Location: new orleans, la

throw aside the fact that I don't trust Cowen's accounting people...

If you want to compare TU and UNO, don't forget that Tulane has a medical school. Care to consider what happens to donated bodies without refigeration? Same goes for research animals that might have passed. Decontamination of the buildings that housed this kind of activity is not cheap.

My only other comment would be that students (and/or parents of students) actually refused to pay their tuition, and many times demanded deep discounts before deciding to pay the bills.

So, there is obviously considerable losses, the question becomes what is the actual number. Tulane being a private university, does not have to disclose these figures. However, if they apply for FEMA money, I would bet that those figures become public records, accessible via public records requests.

mollyzogirl · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 93 Location: New Orleans

wwalkeri · Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 136

All Im gonna say is UNO has test animals and dorms as well. UNO was also in an area that was hit harder than Tulane. I would be very accepting of a number around 150 million; I am worrie that alot of unessesary renovations might have been done at the expense of the Engineering and Med School. A dean doesn't just resign unless something shady is going on. Furthermore, Tulane can hold off on some of these construction projects until they are financially viable. I think Tulane is acting like a person who just doesnt want their bank account to drop below 1,000. They will still have plenty money but are just not comfortable with it. Whatever the case, by law Tulane's financial records are public and should be able to be found in the chamber of commerce after they publish their quarterly report or whatever report deals with their finances.

wwalkeri · Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 136

just another thought:
Why do we need to have all of these satellite campuses when we cant even handle program costs for the main campus

James A. Lancaster · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 17 Location: Uptown (NOLA)

http://www.guidestar.org/
Database of all non-profits in the U.S. and most of their tax forms they file each year. You can check out any university, or any group that claims 501(c)3 status.

Free registration

Search "Tulane University" and you'll find the "Administrators of The Tulane Educational Fund aka Tulane University" listed. You can scroll down to their 2004 info and see all their financial numbers. Depending on if they have a schedule for everything, which they might for the coming year when they want to not be taxed for all their losses, we should be able to see everything, or most of it. At least the round numbers should be visible, so we can certainly check back later for confirmation. I received word last night that the University is already working to get the endowed chairs of the eliminated departments dumped into the general fund. This is unsubstantiated, but not unrealistic.

#2 in the Objectives for 2005 seems a bit dubious, as well.
_________________
Civil '03

jmikowski · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 121

That seems a little underhanded....remove the positions and departments...but keep the money. I bet that is where the "savings" come from. They are hoping to keep all the money from engineering, but not have the engineering program using it.
_________________
- Justin Mikowski
Computer Engineering '07
"Non sibi Sed Suis" -Not for one's self but for one's people.

Fink · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 8

mollyzogirl · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 93 Location: New Orleans

wckirby · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 355 Location: New Orleans

Tulane loves to brag that they're part of the "American Association of Universities."

Here's the list of members:

http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html

How many of those schools have engineering schools?
> Answer to come shortly!
_________________
Clay Kirby
11th generation New Orleanian
4th generation Tulanian
Mechanical Engineering Class of '06

wckirby · Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 355 Location: New Orleans

Here's the list of members of the American Association of Universities, their Engineering/Computer Science component.

Brandeis University (1985) - Has CompSci, no engineering
Brown University (1933) - Has CompSci and a fairly large engineering program
California Institute of Technology (1934) - Hmm, what do you think?
Carnegie Mellon University (1982) - Engineering and CompSci
Case Western Reserve University (1969) - Engineering and CompSci
Columbia University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Cornell University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Duke University (1938) - Engineering and CompSci
Emory University (1995) - Computer Science only
Harvard University (1900) - Computer Science and some engineering [I did not know they had an engineering program, but they do]
Indiana University (1909) - Engineering and CompSci
Iowa State University (1958) - Engineering and CompSci
The Johns Hopkins University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1934) - Duh...
McGill University (1926) - Engineering and CompSci
Michigan State University (1964) - Engineering and CompSci
New York University (1950) - Engineering and CompSci
Northwestern University (1917) - Engineering and CompSci
The Ohio State University (1916) - Engineering and CompSci
The Pennsylvania State University (1958) - Engineering and CompSci
Princeton University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Purdue University (1958) - Engineering and CompSci (The Boilermakers!)
Rice University (1985) - Engineering and CompSci
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey (1989) - Engineering and CompSci
Stanford University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Stony Brook University-State University of New York (2001) - Engineering and CompSci
Syracuse University (1966) - Engineering and CompSci
Texas A&M University (2001) - Engineering and CompSci
Tulane University (1958) - ?????????????????????
The University of Arizona (1985) - Engineering and CompSci
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York (1989) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, Berkeley (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, Davis (1996) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, Irvine (1996) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, Los Angeles (1974) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, San Diego (1982) - Engineering and CompSci
University of California, Santa Barbara (1995) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of Chicago (1900) - CompSci only
University of Colorado at Boulder (1966) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Florida (1985) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (1908) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of Iowa (1909) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of Kansas (1909) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Maryland, College Park (1969) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Michigan (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (1908) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Missouri-Columbia (1908) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Nebraska-Lincoln (1909) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (1922) – Some Engineering and CompSci
University of Oregon (1969) – Computer Science, Offers engineering in partnership with Oregon State (sort of like how several Atlanta area schools offer Georgia Tech engineering degrees)
University of Pennsylvania (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Pittsburgh (1974) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Rochester (1941) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Southern California (1969) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of Texas at Austin (1929) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Toronto (1926) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Virginia (1904) - Engineering and CompSci
University of Washington (1950) - Engineering and CompSci
The University of Wisconsin-Madison (1900) - Engineering and CompSci
Vanderbilt University (1950) - Engineering and CompSci (by the way, this is Tulane’s most comparable institution, I believe)
Washington University in St. Louis (1923) - Engineering and CompSci
Yale University (1900) - Engineering and CompSci

There’s the list. Wow, that was a lot of clicking.

While this list include a couple of Tech schools (MIT, Stanford), the overwhelming majority are diverse schools with excellent liberal arts programs AND Engineering/Computer Science.

When I say these schools have an engineering program, I mean they have a full slate (at least EE, ME, and Civil). There are the occasional exceptions (Harvard, UNC Chapel Hill), which have generalized “engineering science” type programs. One had a coordinate program with another school. No school has a very specialized engineering major without the bread and butter engineering departments to back them up.

Statistics:

Out of 61 Schools (Tulane is 62):
100% of schools have a Computer Science department.
91.8% of schools have both a full slate of engineering and computer science (If you throw in the number of schools with “engineering science” programs, the percentage is even higher)

After doing this research, I can only conclude that someone in the administration was smoking something when they decided on these cuts!
_________________
Clay Kirby
11th generation New Orleanian
4th generation Tulanian
Mechanical Engineering Class of '06